In this post, I will be discussing current and future comments about Kirito that I have received either as a comment on this blog, or on other sites.
Here is a link to the original concepting post in case anyone wants to look. Kirito's Design
So to get started, here is the first couple of comments from a friend on facebook:
"funny concept and love kirito xD. q and w sound a lot like fiora and even the ult sounds a bit like fiora's kit. even the health regen mechanic of his w is very similar to fiora's passive. the cd mechanic for his passive seems really interesting but i imagine there to be major balancing problems with that (since to either nerf or buff his passive to be effective but not op, it would involve changing many of the cds of his other skills). all in all gj on designing your first champion it's probably not at the stage of development where riot would jump on it yet but it'll eventually get there hopefully xD"
"your skills might also be too compound/complex (by that i mean too many different "effects" in one). the q has 5 major components to it (dash, parry, damage, decreased magic damage, the extra auto). the w is more reasonable although still carrying 3 major components in it (regen, the high/low mechanic, move speed). the e has 3 major components (charge, damage, knockback), and the ult if you ignore the fact that you're effectively altering your attack speed by having him attack with 2 swords, is just a massive atk speed steroid. from the way it sounds, the passive of his ult alone would give almost a 100% increase in attack speed (you're getting 2 attacks off in about the time required for one). it feels uninspired and leaves much more to be desired for an "ultimate move""
To respond to this, I will respond to each section of the comments piece by piece.
q and w sound a lot like fiora
Well, I do admit that his Q does sound a lot like Fiora. It is largely similar to Fiora's Q mixed with Jax's E, but with only one charge. One main difference though is that you go to target location, not target champion. This adds for more counterplay since it is dodgeable, and gives Kirito a higher skill cap. So it is actually more like Fiora's Q meets Vi's Q meets Jax's E, lol. And to be honest, a charge up like with Vi's Q on Kirito's Q might be a good thing with him to increase the counterplay, but I would like to test him thoroughly both ways to see if that is needed.
As far as the W goes, this doesn't sound anything like Fiora's W to me. Thinking back though, since I don't want Kirito to be a tanky derp, I could make the health regen be a flat amount instead of a % health, although I already have ways to make building lots of health not be good with this ability.
even the ult sounds a bit like fiora's kit.
Perhaps. I designed Kirito to be a fast attacking high movement speed fighter, so he probably will sound similar to Yi or Fiora in that regard. However, I still feel like the passive, combined with the removal of attack animation slowing him down adds uniqueness to his kit. Fee free to disagree though.
even the health regen mechanic of his w is very similar to fiora's passive
I disagree on this one. Fiora's passive heals her when she attacks things, Kirito's W heals him whenever it isn't on cooldown. Come to think of it, that does encourage boring gameplay, which is bad, but I think that there is enough incentive to use the ability thanks to the power of movement speed, and his passive, that it will be okay. If not I could change that part some to make it not encourage lane staleness from the Kirito player.
the cd mechanic for his passive seems really interesting but i imagine there to be major balancing problems with that (since to either nerf or buff his passive to be effective but not op, it would involve changing many of the cds of his other skills)
Actually I do not think this is true, since you can both nerf and buff the damage of this ability, and you can change this abilities cooldown completely independently of his other abilities cooldowns.
it's probably not at the stage of development where riot would jump on it yet but it'll eventually get there hopefully xD
Agreed. It will take more work, but that is what I wanted feedback for, as I am new at this and need help from others.
For analyzing the first parts of this next quote, I will compare the complexity and compactness of Kirito's moves to that of other fighters. I will compare to wukong, Aatrox, Jax, and Vi.
your skills might also be too compound/complex (by that i mean too many different "effects" in one). the q has 5 major components to it (dash, parry, damage, decreased magic damage, the extra auto).
Wukong Q: AA range increase, AA reset, Bonus Damage, Armor Reduction. 4 components.
Aatrox Q: Jump, Damage, Knockup. 3 components.
Jax Q: Leap, Damage. 2 Components.
Vi Q: Gather range and Damage. Cannot Attack or cast spells. Movement Speed Decreased. Dash Damage. Apply W. Knockback. Stop when champion hit. 7-8 components depending on how you count it.
So, my Q has many more components than Aatrox and Jax, a bit more than Wukong, and much less than Vi. Assuming the rest of the kit is in order, I think this is okay, although we of course have to analyze that too!
the w is more reasonable although still carrying 3 major components in it (regen, the high/low mechanic, move speed).
Wukong W: Stealth. Summon Decoy. Damage. 3 components not including mind games.
Aatrox W: Damage with health cost. Healing, Choices on which. about 3 components.
Jax W: AA reset. Damage. 2 components.
Vi W: Damage on 3rd blow. Armor Reduction. Attack speed boost. 3 components.
Kirito's W seems just fine to me.
the e has 3 major components (charge, damage, knockback)
Aatrox E: Damage. Slow. 2 components.
Jax E: Dodge. Reduced AoE damage. Can let run out or reactivate. Stun. Damage. Increased damage with dodges. 6 components.
Vi: Gain charges. Auto Attack reset. Damage. 3 components.
Kirito's E seems to be fine. I will also analyze Kirito's Passive and Ult in comparison, even though it is not mentioned in the comment.
Wukong R: Damage. Knockup. Movement Speed. Can't attack or use spells. 4 components.
Aatrox R: Damage. Attack speed. Range. 3 components.
Jax R: Damage on 3rd attack.. Bonus mr and armor. More mr and armor based on damage and ap. 3 components.
Vi R: Damage to target. Dash to Target. Knockup Target. CC Immune. Knock asside addtional enemies. Damage additional enemies. 6 components
Kirito R: Second Sword. Attack Speed of 2nd Sword. attack speed boost. attack speed over time boost. does not slow down to attack. 5 components.
Less that Vi, more than the others. Not a bad number of components imo.
Wukong Passive: MR/Armor buff. Depends on # enemies. 2 components.
Aatrox Passive: Store's Health. Depletes over time. GA revive. Healing. 4 components.
Jax Passive: increase attack speed with your basic attacks. 1 Component.
Vi passive: Gains a shield. Based on max health. 2 components.
Kirito Passive: Needs to have all abilities on cooldown. extra auto attack damage. 2 components.
Kirito's passive seems to be right in line with other abilties.
Wukong total number components: 16
Aatrox total number components: 13
Jax total number components: 14
Vi total number components: 21-22
Kirito total number components: 18
So, as you can see, Kirito falls in second for number of compents in moves among the fighers I compared him to. So, he might be a little too complex for some players, but then again that could just make him have a high skill ceiling, which is something that I like. Anyways, on to the next part of the comment!
and the ult if you ignore the fact that you're effectively altering your attack speed by having him attack with 2 swords, is just a massive atk speed steroid. from the way it sounds, the passive of his ult alone would give almost a 100% increase in attack speed (you're getting 2 attacks off in about the time required for one).
Yes, the ult passively does give you 100% increased attack speed (maybe this should be decreased at lower ranks?). This was intentional to get a attack with one sword, then another feel, but still feel faster since you should feel faster attacking with two swords than with one. I also tried to balance this by making the offhand auto attacks deal less damage, which still fits thematically. Maybe I didn't handle this in the best way possible, but I think there is potential in the basic gaining attack speed thanks to having two blades idea. Probably needs a few tweaks in execution.
it feels uninspired and leaves much more to be desired for an "ultimate move"
The following video was my inspiration, specially at around 1 minute.
As you can see, the idea is for you to fight and constantly struggle to get faster and stronger as you progress in an epic battle. But perhaps something is missing to make the ultimate move fell really good as an ultimate, at least the active part (the passive part feels really good i'm sure). To make it feel better, I would first make sure that your swords gain really cool visual effects once you activate the ability. I think seeing your blades swinging around all cool like would help with the not feeling good part, and I also think that we would need to experience the not being slowed down by auto attacks part to know how good that feels, since there is nothing else like that in the game. One last thing I might add is kind of a finishing blow at the end of the abilityl Perhaps something like once this abilitiy goes on cooldown. Kirito's next auto attack deals x bonus damage or X bonus % missing health damage or something like that. Some suggestions on what I could add would be great!
Well, that is all for the comments I have so far. I will edit this post to address more as they come up.
edit 7/8/2013: I have been thinking some more, and there are some issues that I thought of myself with the cohesiveness of Kirito's kit, and the goal to make him into a fighter, not a melee carry. I would like to discuss those now.
Issue number 1: This comes from his W. The way it is currently set up, it encourages the Kirito player to not go all in, but to instead just poke fight because you will regen more health this way and possibly eventually win while at really high health. This is not only poor gameplay, but it also goes against what I want Kirito to be. To fix this, this skills passive needs to just be reworked. I am currently thinking of the best way to do this, but it will probably be something along the lines of Kirito gaining lifesteal (either every hit on every 3rd) against minions, monsters, and champions (more against champions) or just against champions. Will update later with my decision after some more thinking. I may come to the conclusion that playtesting would need to be done to test thouroughly. One note though is that this lifesteal will never be as high as Aatrox's when below half hp, though it may be somewhere around his when above half.
Issue number 2: Because of the huge attack speed steroids, it would make sense to build Kirito like an AD carry. So, I want to change a few things about his kit. First of all, his offhand attacks gained at ultimate rank up cannot crit. This will encourage attack damage over crit and attack speed builds, while still making crit a non wasted stat since his main attacks will still be fast and will still hurt.
Next, I might decide to make Kirito's E scale with cooldown reduction, to encourage items such as the brutilizer and Ionia boots. This also encourages tanky items built from kindlegem, so again this would need to be tested to make sure it doesn't send kirito building tanky either.
Lastly there is one thing I might have forgotten to mention before. That is that I want Kirito to have high AD scaling with low base damages (opposite of a tank). That way you will be more encouraged to build AD. With these 2-3 things in mind, I think that it will become obvious that Kirito should be built as a fighter, not a tank or a carry.
Until Next Time!
"Every kill brings victory closer!"
-Rikukun
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